The $100K Property Mistake (and How to Avoid It) with Don Healy

William Reid (: 00:00

All right, welcome back everybody. I'm really excited on this episode because my mission for this year was to actually start to bring in guests to the episode that can kind of support our mission. And I'll be doing that all year. And I found a great one that's gonna help really supplement one of the series that we've just finished. And if you've been following along,

We've been working on the Understanding Design Limitation Series, which was the last 10 episodes, you know, where I covered floor area ratio and setbacks and easements and just tons of things that you as a homeowner are really gonna wanna know before you buy a property, if you already have a property, if you're thinking about expanding your home or building a new home. These are all the things that you're gonna wanna know.

And you're not necessarily going to want to depend on a real estate agent or even the developer that developed the lots to tell you all the things that you're going to need to know. So, and I also know that it was probably overwhelming. So I found a person, we connected through LinkedIn, and I'm going to introduce you to him right now and then we're going to dive right into some questions that him and I formulated. And we're hoping that

This is gonna help people that are serious and wanting to build or remodel Even for builders out there that are listening or architects. Architects, might wanna be listening to this too because I know that you and your staff can spend a ton of time doing a lot of the research that this person's doing and you might be able to just push a button and get it done. So everybody, welcome Don Healy. Don is the founder of Sand and Sage Solutions.

and the creator

reports. This is a due diligence and feasibility service designed to help homeowners make better, more informed decisions before building or buying

property. So while Dawn's mission is centered on protecting homeowners, you recognize that statement, much of that impact happens through supporting the builders and professionals who guide them, helping ensure projects start with clarity instead of costly surprises.

Don's mission is, mean, it couldn't be more perfectly aligned than what we've been working on together. So with over 20 years of experience in construction operations, engineering and site development, Don specializes in uncovering the hidden risks that can derail home building projects from zoning and permitting constraints to utilities, drainage and environmental conditions. And we all know there's a hell of a lot more than that.

Don sent me some of his reports ahead of time and he's covered it all. So Don's work is rooted in a commitment to transparency, education, and practical expertise. By combining real

experience with modern tools, he helps builders and homeowners across the country navigate the complexity of residential construction with greater confidence and fewer unknowns.

So there you go. Welcome, Don. Take it away

or subtract or whatever you want to do with that introduction.

Don Healy (: 02:59

Yeah, you know,

thank you, Bill. I really appreciate that, outstanding intro. And, know, as we've talked about, at the end of the day, you know, we've both seen customers or, people that are entering into the process of, building a house or doing an addition. And, that's a, that's for a lot of people, that's a lifetime moment. That's a, that's a milestone in their lives. And, what's so hard for us is when we see people.

you know, go into this, process with excitement and then all of the things hit them that turn what should be an exciting lifetime moment into, into a grind. And, know, we're aligned in our purpose of helping people understand what the risks are and the challenges and the complications that they may be facing. So at least they know what they're getting into and they can take those issues head on instead of getting smacked in the face with them through the process.

which ultimately makes it a really hard process if you don't know what you're getting into. And, you know, that's exactly my mission is to engage with customers who are, are planning on, building on property, building an ADU, doing an addition, and helping them understand all of those things in black and white right at the beginning of the process. so they can understand.

What the downstream impacts are going to be how it's going to affect their budget how it's going to affect their timeline so that they can go in with all the the knowledge upfront Before they they get into the depths of the process

William Reid (: 04:21

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, I've seen ⁓ many situations where homeowners have even spent tens of thousands of dollars, forget about the buying the lot or the property, but spent tens and 20 and 30s and even thousand more dollars on architectural design and plans.

realized too late

restrictions on the property that just don't allow them to build what's been designed. And that's a bad scenario.

Don Healy (: 04:48

Yeah Yeah,

you know, I mean one of the drivers behind me doing what I'm doing is you know seeing people who have actually gotten

at

building permit review time for for something like zoning, know something that they that was missed it fell through the gaps in the process between the builder and the customer and there was a misunderstanding and they turn in for permits, you know, the designs done the the budgets are set and the county says

You know, I'm sorry, you know, you can't do this or you're going to have to go through a 18 month planning approval process to be able to do what you want to do. that's the gut shot that, takes what should be an awesome process and exciting thing. And, turns it into the tailspin of, of, you know, doubts and, and, you know, budget overruns and blowing up contingencies and all that sort of stuff that makes for a hard process.

William Reid (: 05:39

Right, and let's remember everybody out there that.

During the design process, it is the responsibility of your design professionals to do all of this due diligence that we've been talking about in the podcast and we're going to touch on today. And the reason we're doing this is because

it gets done, but it may not get to get done to the thoroughness that needs to be done. And if there's people out there that I see talking about on Facebook posts and Facebook groups and, I got a great, cheap designer. Look, I only spend $5,000.

of

design my house well guess what it probably cost you a hundred and fifty thousand dollars more to build your house because

drafts person may have threw your plans together for you real quick and there you are standing in the planning department getting denied like Don's saying so ⁓ all right so let's dive in so as you know

Don Healy (: 06:23

Right, right.

William Reid (: 06:27

spent a bunch of time and on episodes in these design limitations series but what do you see

And let's talk about maybe somebody who's considering buying blank land or have already bought blank land. What do you see as the biggest knowledge gap when people are shopping for land,

Don Healy (: 06:40

Hahaha

Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, you, you actually, sort of touched on one already and that's, buying, based on, on lot price. And, you know, for me, if I see a lot in a subdivision or a lot that's priced under market, that's always a red flag for there's, there's gotta be something to it. And, you know, I see people that buy lots that are, uh, $20,000 under market or, or $20,000 under, uh, lots that are surrounding it.

And, know, easily can rack up 80, 100, $120,000 in additional costs to mitigate whatever's going on with that. so, you know, that's, that's one of the main things that I see lead people into, uh, into, into bad deals or, or, or issues. but you know, people, vastly, underestimate the impacts of the risks that can be had with land.

You know, they, they trust the listing, you know, the gently sloping, you know, utilities nearby, they, they trust all of that as, as okay. And they decide to go down the process, especially when they're under pressure to have shortened due diligence period and make a, know, really get that offer in on that piece of land. That's their dream property that has the views. And so they, choose not to mitigate those risks.

or they downplay the potential costs of it. Slope is one of the biggest things, you know, people, people see a lot and they're like, you know, it's okay. It's got a great view. It's worth it for the view. And that slope may cost them, you know, $80,000. And, those impacts are not on their mind when they're in that buying the lot. This is their dream property. They love the view, are not on their minds and they don't weigh that properly, when they're making those buying decisions.

William Reid (: 08:24

Yeah, I mean, the list goes on and on and on, right? And the one of the things that I've run into too is the emotional aspect when people are going to buy it. You know, I mean, you can you get more emotional that when you walk onto a piece of property, it's this nice sloping lot with a big view and nobody's talking about, you know, that it's going to take 300 feet to get the sewer line to the property, you know, including the real estate agents and the developers, right? So, so these are the kind of things that ⁓ we've tried

Don Healy (: 08:26

Yeah, yeah.

Right

Right, exactly.

William Reid (: 08:54

in previous episodes to say, okay, look, try to put that aside

Don Healy (: 08:57

You know, Bill, there was one point I wanted to make in this is in this shopping process, there's really no fault on anybody for not understanding the risks. This is hard stuff. And, you know, in my experience, a lot of land buyers, they don't necessarily know who to go ask. Their realtors are not land experts. You know, they're a good guide. But at the end of the day, they're trying they're trying to sell a property. And so, you know, we see a lot of land buyers that.

Know that there's risks don't necessarily know where to go ask somebody or what to look for so they they you know hold their nose and Sign on that bottom line and make that purchase on that property and then just hope for the best on the backside when they to start that you know engaging with their architects and their builders and And that's pretty risky. I mean that's that's you know setting yourself up like we spoke about They're probably underestimating those risks when they make that decision But it's

not for a lack of not wanting to, it's because they don't know who to go ask.

William Reid (: 09:51

Right, right, good point, yeah. Yeah, and I guess that's our mission here is to try to help them figure out who to ask and what to ask.

Don Healy (: 09:58

Exactly. That's just

as important. You know, it's there's a lot of difference between going to the jurisdiction and saying, hey, can I build a house on this lot and going to the jurisdiction and saying, hey, you know, I know that it's got slope. I know that it's in this zoning. I know that it's got wetlands. What do I need to do to be able to mitigate those things to build my house? You're going to get vastly different answers and much better information from that jurisdiction.

William Reid (: 10:20

Yeah, yeah, and when you go into those planning departments to ask those questions

Sometimes you have to poke and prod a little bit because you might be talking with a junior planner behind the counter that just whips out a book, you know, ⁓ and starts reading the book, which you could do online yourself. so, so you kind of want to press and press and press as a homeowner or even an architect, you know, going into talking to these, these planning departments to really understand what the limitations are. if you do pull the trigger and you buy your lot and you do, ⁓

Don Healy (: 10:30

Right.

Mm-hmm.

William Reid (: 10:51

schematic design, your first round of design, it's always smart to go into the planning department and say, hey, look at this. Do you think we can do it? Before you get into all the other aspects of design, design steps.

Don Healy (: 11:05

Yeah, and you know, on that on that note, too, I don't I don't want people to be afraid to go in and talk to their jurisdiction. And in my experience, they would way rather help you early in the process before you have permits submitted than to give you bad news after you're already in the process and you have hard things to figure out. And so, you know, in my experience, if you go in with a plan, you know what you're doing, you know what you want to build, you know, roughly what what the scope is there.

they're more than happy to have those conversations. And then with that said, a lot of jurisdictions, they do offer free pre-applications, pre-app meetings. And in my experience with those, they're very helpful. They'll bring in the fire marshal, they'll bring in public works, they'll bring in everybody that needs to be in that conversation and ⁓ are very helpful in helping guide the path.

William Reid (: 11:50

Yeah, I've experienced that too. We were doing a project up in Napa County and they had a pre-planning process. It actually even cost money, but it was very comprehensive. I agree. mean, they have a genuine interest because it creates a lot less work for them in the plan check process. yeah. All right. so can you think of like maybe some specific situations, some case studies that you've experienced where

Don Healy (: 11:59

Right.

Right. Exactly.

Yeah.

William Reid (: 12:18

you

know, the people already bought the lot and you know, the thing that it's kind of like if I had only known this, you know, before closing, have you ever had a situation where a client...

Don Healy (: 12:26

Hmm, yeah.

Yeah. You know, Bill, I got one that's a heartbreaker and it's still, it's still bugs me because there's very few that end up in a property, not being able to be built on. And I worked with some folks who had bought a property. it was, it was rural forested property on a river and, they had purchased it with the intent of it being, where they built their retirement home, but they weren't ready to build at that time. They were using it for camping and that sort of stuff until they could build their home.

And this property was zoned for forest use and it had previously had a dwelling on it. So when they purchased it, it was eligible for a replacement dwelling. But what they missed was that eligibility expired after five years post demo of the, of the original house. And so they engaged with me and they're like, they're like, Hey, yeah, you know, it had a dwelling on it. It should be eligible for, for a house.

William Reid (: 13:16

wow.

Don Healy (: 13:24

And, without being able to go through the replacement rights process, the, process, the template dwelling process was, was much more comprehensive. And unfortunately there was some, environmental, regulations that had gone into place that were mixed up in litigation that was going to take. Multiple years. I mean, it's still, it's still in litigation that prevented the County from approving any new dwellings.

in that zoning use for those properties. had they been able to really evaluate that property, understand what the regulations were for that specific zoning when they purchased that property, they would have they would have understood that there was there was processes like they could have done extensions. There was things that they could have done to be able to keep that property eligible for building a house on until until they were ready to build on that on that property.

William Reid (: 14:07

wow.

Don Healy (: 14:10

And that's a tough one. I mean, that was your retirement dreams, down the toilet, and that was a really hard conversation to have to have with them. But, you know, that's one of those cases where I was like, man, I wish I could have helped them when they were in the process of buying that property five years ago, 10 years, seven years ago, whatever it was. Yeah. Right, right. You know, and, you know, I just worked with another customer on a property.

William Reid (: 14:27

Wow, wow, yeah, yeah. That's a pretty good example. Yeah.

Don Healy (: 14:37

this one, you know, ended up being buildable, but very much more expensive than what they had originally planned. And it was, that view lot that we were talking about. It was, it was the last one in a subdivision. It was a beautiful view lot and they bought the lot, you know, standing, standing on the, on the side of the slope, looking out over town. And, ⁓ what we found when we dug into this one, was it was sloped. It was pretty extremely sloped.

but there was restricted easements on the property because of slope. So there was a very, very small allowable building area on that property. so construction of the house on the slope was going to be expensive, right? But, you know, we started digging into things, the way that that buildable area positioned the house on the, on the property was going to require a driveway with a 20 % slope.

Fire marshal was not on board with that. it was gonna drive fire sprinklers in the house The slopes and the special restrictions around that drove special geotechnical engineering and it drove You know civil engineering and it drove, you know special stormwater and erosion control and all of these measures that ended up 120 hundred and fifty thousand dollars additional

then what they had had previously expected and. know, that takes quite a house, to be able to, wash out those, those lot costs. And, and you couldn't put a very big footprint because of, because of that restricted build area. So, you know, that one, they still ended up building that house and getting their view. They weren't able to get all the options and all the things that they wanted with the house because, because they had to, you know, to absorb that, that additional development costs.

William Reid (: 15:56

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, mean, boy, and we're expecting, homeowners who've never bought a property before, maybe, or maybe, and maybe have never built a home to know this stuff, right?

there's a little bit of a conflict of interest when somebody is trying to sell them a lot,

Don Healy (: 16:28

You know, disclosures don't necessarily tell the whole the whole story either.

William Reid (: 16:32

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. And I think maybe when we get further down, I'm gonna ask you about how your reports differ from disclosures that you get. Because some disclosures can be pretty detailed, but you're right. and they're not thinking about all the impacts from a development standpoint, right? All right, so the next question I have.

if I'm a homeowner or a builder and I'm evaluating a piece of land, let's say we're a homeowner, what should I be researching and where do I even start? I know we touched on a little bit, but maybe we can break down the process quickly about, let's say I'm a homeowner, I haven't bought the lot yet.

and I love it a lot.

Don Healy (: 17:20

for me there's the at that initial look there's there's the big five I refer to him as the big five and it's the big five things that are that are really going to either kill build ability of a lot or make it really really hard. We've talked about zoning. That's number one, verifying that the zoning meets your your plan. And that's that's saying more than just is zoned for residential.

If you're planning a house with an ADU, you've got to make sure that the zoning works for that. You know, you've got to make sure that the zoning works for what your plan is. Number two is floodplains and you know, floodplain on a property, you know, no matter what level of floodplain it is can cause an awful lot of additional costs and regulation. The FEMA website is really easy to use. Go to the FEMA website, pull up that map and verify if there's floodplains.

⁓ Same thing with with wetlands. There's a there's a national wetlands inventory That's another one, you know at least just getting a high-level look from the the national database It's available with the maps online Look for wetlands that are on that property because those are really really hard to deal with once you get there Access is is another another one that a lot of people don't think about especially when we get rural

Is ensuring that there's there's a road and that there's some sort of document if it's a private road some sort of document that is Allowing access through that road to the specific property that you want to build on And then the last one is slope and you know You can use google earth google earth has a has a great tool where you can hold the the cursor over the property and and it'll show you elevations and Just getting an idea of whether this property has got

two feet of slope or if it's got 20 feet of slope is is going to make a huge difference in the path of development. So you know those big five if you if you've got your head around those things and those are easily researchable ⁓ you know by anybody with a computer you know those are going to mitigate 80 percent of the of the big things that are really going to really going to cause you trouble.

you know, the next thing that I would say is that, you evaluate those big five, you feel pretty good about the property. you know, make an offer and get into that due diligence period. But then the next thing is to gather all the documentation that you can about that property and read it all the CC and ours, the, architectural requirements, get a title report, you know, don't, don't mess around with that. Get it, get a title report.

Any existing survey documentation You know most jurisdictions now Store all of their their prior permits online Go dig any prior permits look for old septic permits or old building permits or old demo permits You know the plot maps, you know, if it's in a if it's in a platted subdivision Get your hands on that plot map. It's recorded at the county It has to be recorded at the county get your hands on that read the notes

⁓ It's gonna talk about hazard areas and easements. It's gonna have that information so, know, that would be the next step is gather all of that that documentation and Review all of it and then you know would say is you as you read through that if there's red flags Pull pull the thread on the on the red flags if there's something if there's a weird easement across the property You don't understand what something means. That's really those questions that you that you can't glaze over

because those are the ones that are going to get you.

William Reid (: 20:34

Yeah, I mean I had a project where it was a good client of mine. They bought a two and a half acre parcel and asked me to come work with them on basically entitling the whole project. the first thing I did was pulled up the recorded map right at the assessor's office to take a look at the property. And right through one third of the property is a 10 foot wide by

you know, 100 foot long, it went all the way across the property, easement. And it was an underground utility easement. And the interesting story here,

So this was to serve a power, transformer, right, to power three, two or three houses in this little like private subdivision. And the transformer was actually on the other person's property. So it went all the way across. And the...

Don Healy (: 21:11

Mm-hmm.

William Reid (: 21:22

The interesting thing is this was a lot that went through a wildfire. one of these days we might talk about WiWI, Wilder Land Interface. And when the utility company restored the power lines, it had to be replaced, even though it was underground. They had to replace the power line. They actually, in haste, in an emergency, put the power line outside of the easement.

Don Healy (: 21:29

Right? Yeah.

wow, yep.

William Reid (: 21:46

So I spent a year and a half getting

the power line moved back into the easement. Not to mention that it drove the design of the project because it cut off like a third of the property. Now, fortunately, it wasn't detrimental. But just think about it, what if it was right through the middle of the property?

Don Healy (: 21:51

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, I've actually got a great story about a property that I evaluated that it was funny right in the real estate listing. It said that power was available on the lot. And, and, you know, we went out and we looked at this law. This was one that I physically went looked at. And first thing I noticed was there was a high voltage transmission lines that went across the back third of the lot.

And there was no transformer power pedestal J box to be found any anywhere on that property. And what we also discovered was that there was a hundred foot setback off of those high voltage power lines that that essentially made the property unbuildable. So yeah, there was there was power on that lot and it was not usable power that you could that you could tap into in any way, shape or form. And then on top of that, you had to impose these massive setbacks or easements that you couldn't build within.

William Reid (: 22:55

Yeah, you know and just because you're remodeling doesn't mean you're gonna be faced with these issues, too ⁓ We had a project in Northern, California where we were doing an Expansion we wanted to add on to the side of the home. We wanted to build a cabana out the back. He wanted solar power He wants a Tesla charging station. He wants electric

Don Healy (: 23:01

Right.

William Reid (: 23:15

heat pump pool system and went on and on and on and half of the stuff was decided during construction not before long story short the inspector came out and said your power service isn't big enough you need to do a load calculation and you need to upgrade this service we had to dig up the street and dig up brand new landscaping

Don Healy (: 23:29

Right? Yeah, happens a lot.

William Reid (: 23:38

and hardscaping to pull in an underground. And of course it was underground. And of course the conductor going from the service in the main transformer was not big enough. it just went on and on and on and on, right? And fortunately the client was okay with a significant additional cost on the project. But that goes to thorough design, schematic design, design development, the construction drawings, making sure

Don Healy (: 23:42

Mm-hmm.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

William Reid (: 24:05

that

all your wants and wishes and needs are documented within the plan set before you start construction, because I could have easily planned that out. And if you've ever worked with utility companies, think it took me a year. And that's actually segue right into my next question, which was, what does utilities being available on a, so whoever sold in a lot saw the high power line said, well, I guess it's available.

Don Healy (: 24:15

They're not fast, yeah

Right, right. Yeah.

William Reid (: 24:34

And then the connection costs, even if they really are available, that could be all over the place, right?

Don Healy (: 24:40

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one thing that I recommend, especially if you're if you're going to be using city services, even even electrical services is ⁓ get your eye on the place that you're going to connect. And, you know, sewer laterals catch a lot of people there. They're in cities. People assume that they're sewer to the lot. We run into a lot of instances where there's no lateral. And if you've got to do a main tap, even if the main runs right in the street.

You're you're cutting the street. You're doing trenching. You've got to have shoring sometimes you got to flaggers You got to do road repairs, you know hot taps can can easily, you know cost 20 to 40 thousand dollars And you know, that one's a pretty easy one to solve all you've got to do is go go talk to public works and ask them for an as-built that's the you know That's what the question you go looking for and they can tell you whether there's a there's a lateral usually whether there's a lateral on that property You know

If there's a, you're, if you're looking at a property that is, ⁓ either recently annexed or if it's in a UGB and urban growth barrier, boundary or UGA, those ones are always really big red flags because, ⁓ a lot of jurisdictions will annex properties in. And then the first property to, to pull a building permit is the one that essentially that gets tagged with, with pulling in the mains. And, you know, there's,

There's regulations out there. mean, Oregon has, has some laws in place, uh, related to, know, if it's, um, further than 30, 300 feet away from the, existing mains that you don't have to do it. Um, but I've run into several instances because of nuances like 80 use, break outside of those exceptions and, uh, require people to extend mains. Um, but I mean, even in that 300 foot rule, if you've got, if you've got to extend 250 feet.

of 24 inch sewer main under a road to get to your property to get to sewer access. That's that's a big one, right? That's not that's not an easy undertaking.

William Reid (: 26:26

No.

Can you explain what a lateral is?

Don Healy (: 26:33

in sewer services, you're going to have a main line that's in the street and you know, they're 1824 inches, they're large, the sewer pipelines that are usually pretty deep. And a lateral is essentially the pipe that allows service to that specific property. So it's going to be a four, six, eight inch. Yep. It's a T that comes off of that off of that main.

William Reid (: 26:51

So it's like a T coming off the...

Don Healy (: 26:56

And it comes up onto the property. And if you go to newly developed lots, you're going to see a stake on that property that's got that's painted green usually. And that's marking the end of that, that sewer lateral to connect onto. and, and you have to know where that is. you know, we see a lot of, older lots, you know, have been developed for a long time. that steak goes away, then trying to find the end of that lateral. mean, you could dig up that whole front yard, trying to find that, that lateral. So.

You know, that's that's where I'm saying if you don't if you don't see a clean out on the lot or if you don't see a steak that's painted green or something that points you in the direction where the end of that lateral is usually the jurisdiction is going to have those design documents from when they installed that infrastructure that should should show you if there's a ladder.

William Reid (: 27:38

Okay, yeah, that's great. And what's a hot tap?

Don Healy (: 27:41

So a hot tap, so hot tap is tapping into a hotline and we're talking about tapping into a live loaded line. So, so tapping into an 18 inch, 24 inch sewer line that is in use and it's full of sewer, it takes special tools to be able to do it. A lot of times it takes engineering design.

William Reid (: 27:46

Meaning a live line, Stuff flowing by while you're trying to...

Don Healy (: 28:05

We run into a lot of cities that require right of right of way contractors that are certified bonded and sure to be able to work in their right away. That may not be your standard off the off the street excavator. So yeah, tapping hot tapping into that sewer line can be quite quite the the project to be able to make happen.

William Reid (: 28:23

Great. Now here's a question for you. When a homeowner is thinking about, it's kind of tied to the utility question here.

can you explain just quickly what a land survey and a topographic map is and how that? Can even help document the utilities and other things within the lot besides just the boundaries

Don Healy (: 28:42

Right. Well, in, and, you know, Bill, as you've probably experienced, you start getting into the nuance of survey and, and, ⁓ it's there's, there's a lot of different paths that you can go down and, know, early in my career, a survey was a survey, it was a survey and there's, there's many different types of surveys that you can get. There's all two surveys, there's boundary surveys, there's grading or topographical surveys. and, there are all specific things that you need to ask for.

You know, an ALTA survey is going to evaluate the title documents against the easements and help document where the the easements are on the property. A boundary survey is going to go out and mark the verify and mark the corner pins of the property. A grading survey is going to go out and measure the slope and the topography on that lot so that you that you know exactly how much slope and where those slopes are.

And ⁓ all of those can be of value in different ways as you're going through this through this process. You know, I would say that at a bare minimum, a boundary survey should probably be done on every property purchase. I've run into enough instances where people believe that the fence is the corner of the property and the fence is not the corner of the property.

William Reid (: 29:50

yeah. ⁓

Don Healy (: 29:52

You know, so so I've run into enough of those instances where where you know, I make that a bare minimum recommendation to anyone purchasing purchasing property but then you know having that that survey verify against the title report and Map where any of those easements and and incomperences are on that property is is highly valuable to you mean that would be you know, the second priority

William Reid (: 30:14

Yeah, the homeowner may be surprised if they ask the question of a parcel that they're considering purchasing Ask the question if you ask the question during the transaction they have to disclose it that they have They have a survey document and I found when I when I hire surveyors, I am Unless it's a

Flat lot or something. I almost always request a topo and I always ask them to mark the existing trees where you live There are no trees you don't have to deal with that but But I have a mark all the trees or at least anything larger than 12 inch diameter and I have the mark all the utilities The utilities point of entry the sewer water Communications power and so on and and that that could be really helpful for a homeowner and even if you already own a

Don Healy (: 30:40

You

William Reid (: 30:59

parcel you can have that done and this data can be provided to your designer at the beginning when you when you interface with them in the beginning and say hey I want to do this and by the way here's my survey and that survey can be you know cherished throughout the whole design process they import that information into their software and everybody your landscapers use it excavation contractors use it and they build their site plans with it and they're grading you're a grading

Don Healy (: 31:12

Mm-hmm.

William Reid (: 31:28

and all that kind of stuff. So, but that can help with the whole utility aspects. Okay.

if a homeowner comes, let's say, and we haven't got into your reports, and we can point people to your website at the end of this, and they can check it out, but I've reviewed your reports. If a homeowner comes to the architect with a comprehensive property evaluation already done, does that change what the architect or the designer is going to do? Does that give a homeowner a jump start? Does it fast forward the process?

What is the difference between what a design pro would do versus what maybe you would do with some of the work that you do at Sage and... Sand to Sage solution, sorry.

Don Healy (: 32:13

Sand and Sage. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, I'm a big believer that the more expert eyes that you get on a project, the more you're going to be able to mitigate risk. And, know, I see what we provide as a tool where a designer can then, you know, go back, check, double check, or consider things verified, but it may also raise questions in their mind.

of like, hey, I've seen this before, or I've experienced this and let's go dig further on it. there's a lot of power between a very experienced builder, a land due diligence expert and a architect designer that really knows their their stuff. If if you get those three players on on the board thinking together, you've got pretty high odds of mitigating majority of the risks with that with that property.

William Reid (: 33:02

I agree. I I think that if somebody was really prudent about a piece of property and they did something like this, whether they did it themselves or they, you know, they hired an agency like yourself to do it for them.

you know, especially if it's pre-purchase, right? I mean, this is something that they could even take to a designer or an architect or somebody and say, what do you think of this lot? you know, hand them the information.

Don Healy (: 33:27

Well,

yeah, you know, I mean, that's that's, you know, part of the idea, right you think about yourself as a builder, if you had somebody come with a report in their hands, that that says, Hey, I know, I've got, I've got 10 feet of slope that I'm gonna have to deal with. I know that I've got these utilities issues. I've got questions about power. I've got a 300 foot driveway, I'm gonna have to have turnouts, I know that I'm gonna have to do that. As a builder, if you're able to start at that jumping off spot, to be able to help

budget and put costs together, you're at a huge advantage in both accuracy and time.

William Reid (: 33:57

Yeah, yeah.

⁓

You know, something just came up. You mentioned something earlier that's got me thinking. ADUs, for anybody who doesn't know what that is, accessory dwelling units. There's something happening in this country where, especially where I'm from originally and I think where you're from, accessory dwelling units are being allowed on properties.

people are wanting to do it, whether they want to have in-law quarters, granny quarters, they want to have a home office, they want to actually rent out the property to help them, you know, from the economic standpoint, to make their project more viable, or people are going to retire and want to live off that income. What should someone evaluate to determine if, you know, their lot can support an ADU? And for the people that are shopping for

Don Healy (: 34:33

Mm-hmm.

William Reid (: 34:47

property with an ADU, know, that have that potential in mind. What makes a lot good or bad, you know, for that?

Don Healy (: 34:54

Right.

Yeah. Well, you know, there's there's a lot to unpack with 80 years. And, you know, first thing that I would say, you know, is going back to the zoning, make sure that the zoning supports being able to build an ADU. Now, with that said, I really have to applaud the the state level, legislature and the jurisdictions because, you know, especially in in Washington, Oregon, California.

They've done a lot to move the needle in helping, helping mitigate, you know, the, housing costs by allowing additional densities and allowing a to use, uh, they've done a lot of work, but with that, there's some, some caveats because at surface level, and ADU is not just plopping a, uh, a 600 square foot house in your, in your backyard.

one of the biggest things that I run into with, with this is, is honestly utility and development costs, just like everything that we're talking about. You know, when we're talking about a sewer extension, you know, so, so let's, let's picture this. You, you've bought a property. It's got a huge backyard and you're like, yeah, I can put an edu back there. This is going to be, this is going to be great. And you know, you start evaluating what it takes to get utilities back to that edu. And if you can't tee into the existing house, you know, you're going to run.

run new lines all the way to the front. Well, you start thinking about an ADU that's 300 feet from the road. There may not be enough slope to be able to get the sewer into the sewer main. So you're going to have lift pumps. There may not, may not be enough slope to be able to get stormwater where it needs to go. So you're going to have special stormwater. you know, we already touched on, power. I've run into multiple times where, an ADU that is infilled into an existing, subdivision.

All the power infrastructure was designed for that subdivision. And so I've had a use, drive the requirement for transformer upgrades that are 15 or $20,000. And so, you know, I would say if you're, if you're interested in the ADU path, it's, it's viable. but you've got to look outside of more than just the box that you're putting in the backyard because there's a lot of, of implement implications. you know, and earlier bill you touched on,

on remodels and expansions. And I see a lot of people that are doing additions that are kind of an on-suite strategy, they're the whole mother-in-law idea. And as soon as you put cooking facilities inside of a addition, in most jurisdictions, you just entered ADU world or second dwelling world.

I've, you know, worked with people in, in multiples of cases where they've thought that they're doing a pretty innocent, you know, mother-in-law's quarters, they've got a range, or something in there. And then, you know, they pull a permit five years down the road for a electrical panel upgrade and they get flagged for having an illegal dwelling on that property that doesn't meet the zoning code that needs proper fire barriers and needs all of those sorts of things.

William Reid (: 37:39

Mm-hmm

Don Healy (: 37:40

⁓ if you're thinking about, you know, a mother-in-law's quarters that has cooking facilities, if you're thinking about an ADU, just like we've been talking about, you know, verify with the jurisdiction that what your intended scope is works with the zoning for, for your property because. know, turning a blind eye and hoping that you get through it is, is going to bite you or somebody down the road.

then it's really tough to get that fixed.

William Reid (: 38:02

Is that called a junior ADU?

Don Healy (: 38:04

there's, there's

a whole bunch of terms like on suite, junior suite, mother-in-law quarters. all of that stuff is, floating around the industry. you know, at least in the jurisdictions that I work in, really that trigger that, calls something and an additional dwelling is the, the cooking facilities. sometimes it's a bedroom, but most often it's cooking facilities that then pushes it over the line to being called another dwell.

William Reid (: 38:12

Thanks.

I think in California they call them junior ADUs or regular ADUs or whatever. if I want to put an ADU on my property and it's allowed, do I have to do a lot split? Do I have to create another lot?

Don Healy (: 38:40

No, not for not for an ADU. You know, the the intent for an ADU is is an additional dwelling on a on a particular property. Now there is movements, Oregon, Washington and California all have some great bills that are being enacted by jurisdictions that do allow for a second dwelling. So not an additional dwelling, a second dwelling that if done the right way,

There's expedited processes for being able to partition those lots, but there's special rules apply. You know, one of those special rules, if you're looking at a property and you're thinking that you, that you want to build another dwelling on it as an investment and, partition and sell that lot. One of the big catches is that all the utilities have to be 100 % separate. the logistics of that can get tough. depending on how the lots are ranged.

⁓ You may have to set up access easements or utility easements to be able to get the infrastructure correct to be able to execute that partition.

William Reid (: 39:35

I've heard of things like if you want to put an ADU on your property you have to commit by recorded deed that you're going to use it as a rental property in some jurisdictions. you ever heard of that?

Don Healy (: 39:49

You know, I have found odd nuances on on both sides of that. Like up here in Oregon, we actually run into the opposite side of that, where where there's regulations against rentals and short term rentals. I do believe that California has some of those regulations that you're speaking to in place that do require, you know, some some level of affordability, ⁓ rental housing, that sort of stuff.

William Reid (: 40:12

Yeah.

Right.

Don Healy (: 40:14

⁓ but you know, sometimes that can go down as far as, community level regulations. And, know, while we're talking about regulations, it's, it's important to understand and bill, you know, this, you know, there's layers of regulation, right? And there's, building codes that start at the federal level, the state level. And, and the way the regulations work is that the, next lower, jurisdiction of the regulation has to meet.

William Reid (: 40:28

Mounds. It's more like mounds.

Don Healy (: 40:40

the upper code or be more restrictive, right? Meet or, or exceed. So what's happening with a lot of these ADU and middle housing codes is the, the States are putting these bills in place. And then, you know, the jurisdictions, the cities, the counties, they have to meet those, those regulations or be more restrictive. And that's where you can get yourself in a little bit of trouble at that, at that jurisdiction level, is, is figuring out some of that nuance.

William Reid (: 40:42

Exceed it, right? Yeah.

Yeah, you know, the other thing I've been learning is I've been following some of the, it's called the housing element in the state of California, which has been basically the state mandating how many housing units need to be added in every single city in the state of California and how the ADU part of that is a path towards these cities to either they make the numbers or they lose control of their cities.

Basically wonderful, California, right? And

Don Healy (: 41:35

Yeah.

William Reid (: 41:36

so what a lot of cities have done and this is good for homeowners to know if you're thinking about buying a property or even I actually Own one and you've thought it'd be nice to have an accessory unit out in the back Check with your planning department because a lot of them have pre-designed pre-approved

accessory dwelling units that really streamline and expedite the approval process. So if you live in an urban or suburban area, you'd be surprised. A lot of states, but the one I'm from anyway, California, they're mandating this and this is the only way they're gonna be able to hit the numbers that they need to.

Don Healy (: 42:12

I've got mixed feelings on, on that. Like I, I think that they need some push to be able to help regulations make construction more affordable. I don't know that ADU is the, is the path. you know, because ADU has got a lot of trips and a lot of challenges. but you know, one thing that I did want to make sure that people are thinking about if they're thinking about.

this ADU strategy is make sure that you understand what the SDC or the system development charges are when you're budgeting and planning for this. You know, we're starting to see a mixed bag of jurisdictions either requiring full SDCs for ADUs or now they're starting to adopt ordinances to either reduce or exempt some of those those SDC fees. But I mean, I've run into

significant charges with 80 use, even just upsizing a water meter to be able to accommodate the the ad you to tie into an existing water

or: 1000

in a per square footage price with that small of a unit.

William Reid (: 43:21

Yeah, yeah, I've seen I've seen that as well. So SDC that's basically what you're saying is is that are the those are the fees that the city charges to analyze.

Analyze the the utility services right the the like water the gas maybe natural gas. That's the one I've run into We had to upsize the gas line. Of course, we had to go all the way back, know halfway down the street To be able to get back to the main or whatever power sewer All those things so and when you built you when you build a new home you got to do that But but we're talking about everybody goes walking in. Oh, I'm going to spend you know a couple hundred thousand dollars built

Don Healy (: 43:41

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

William Reid (: 44:05

to ADU, next thing you know, 30 % more or 40 % more because you got to be able to turn the lights on flush toilets. All right, well, as we start to get towards the end of this episode, I thought maybe we could tie this up with, you just describe...

Don Healy (: 44:13

Right, right.

William Reid (: 44:26

You know, you have two different reports that you do. One is like what's called the site facts check, which is a pretty quickie type thing, the real high level stuff. I think that's called the site facts, right? And then you've got, ⁓ the site score is the high level and then the site facts is the deeper dive, right? Can you just explain the difference between those two and then maybe what you include in those reports?

Don Healy (: 44:37

The site site score is the high level, the big five. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you know, so the site score is really designed for the lot shopper. You haven't made an offer on a property yet and you're doing evaluations and you've got to you've got to make decisions quick as you're looking at properties. So it's an affordable one pager that's that we turn around in 48 hours and it hits the big five that I talked about earlier. It looks at the zoning code. It looks at floodplains, wetlands, access and slope.

it's really designed to help make those quick initial decisions, as you're evaluating properties. And then, you know, the strategy is, that, that use the site score to help make some of those initial initial shopping decisions. And then when you land on a property that appears to be the right one, you know, it, it, it passes the sniff test that you, you know, make that offer. And then you go into due diligence period and the site facts report is really designed to give you.

that foundational deep dive look at that property. the ideas as we turn these reports around in five days and in the grand scheme of things, they're very, they're very affordable. our intent is to get this report into your hands early in this due diligence period. So then, you know, if, if you need to take one of those recommendations and go hire a geotech or you need to go get a fresh survey or you need to go ask the jurisdiction questions.

William Reid (: 45:47

Wow. Wow.

Don Healy (: 46:03

You've got the time to be able to do that. And then now you have have those, those questions in your hands. with that report, ⁓ we provide a complete data package with all the supporting documentation. so, you know, as you're doing an evaluation of a property, you're doing due diligence, you're going to get no answers and yes answers. And we provide, you know, the clips of the maps, the, the PDFs, the zoning codes, that all go behind that information. And then we also provide.

ded surveys clear back to the: 1800

William Reid (: 46:43

was available, yeah.

Don Healy (: 46:54

Looking for those things that are going to trip you up and try to give you all that information Now with that said in that site facts report. We give you a ton of information But we don't necessarily give you the the answers if we can't give a firm black and white answer We're gonna give you the information and and that may be information you have to take your builder You may have to take to your jurisdiction to be able to get that the the clarity on how that's gonna impact you

⁓ But at least it gives you that nugget to understand that you've got something to deal with and this is how to go deal with it

William Reid (: 47:27

Wow.

Wow, yeah, I even saw in one of your reports that you had like some narrative. Somebody wrote in there, hey, just so you know. So it's not a bunch of just clips and pics, although we needed that and wanted that. I saw a little bit of elaboration in there too. So to me, what it sounds like is this could be really a good tool for people that don't have the time to do their own research

Don Healy (: 47:34

Right. Yes.

Right.

William Reid (: 47:55

or don't even have an architect yet or design pro or even a builder. If they want to spend whatever it costs to do that, they can get that data pulled together. And if they had that, maybe they had a survey. Now they're in a really good place.

Don Healy (: 48:11

Well, and Bill, mean, we could both be honest. Aside from me being weird, people don't love doing due diligence. That four or five hours of sitting at the computer uninterrupted, hoping that you catch everything, scrubbing zoning codes, architects don't love it, engineers don't love it. And here is a service that we've created that provides that information that gives those people a leg up.

to where they've got a guide as well on some of this information. And so they don't necessarily have to spend that five hours at the desk, grinding through documentation and trying to figure out all the things related to the problem.

William Reid (: 48:46

Yeah, yeah, I kind of enjoy it. I kind of like digging into it. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, what's over there? What's over there? You know, I mean, I just, feel like it's just your positioning yourself, right, to do as good a job as possible for a client, right, when you're doing all that due diligence.

Don Healy (: 48:48

For me, it's like CSI, right? It's like, what's the next thing? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

William Reid (: 49:06

All right, well, I think we're getting close to the end. Have you got anything else that you want to ask or say or do or?

Don Healy (: 49:13

No, you know, I just want to put out there that, I intend to be, a resource to help people first. you know, we talked about the story of the, of the folks buying their, their dream retirement property and, know, my whole intent with, with this business that I'm doing is to help people, not have those experiences. I've seen enough people enter into, you know, again, should be a milestone life life moment.

and then struggle with really hard things. And at the end of the day, my whole intent with what we're doing with these services is to help people. so listeners, builders, if there's questions, I'm an open book. Bill put in the show notes the ways to contact me. I'm here to help and apply expertise and help guide people through the process.

⁓ please just note, me being here as a as a resource ⁓ you know I've helped people build a lot of houses and I've evaluated a lot of properties and seen a lot of things and I'm here to help however I can

William Reid (: 50:07

Great, you know, sometimes I get questions and stories and whatnot, and if they lob in some stories and some questions, who knows, maybe we can have another episode about somebody's other thing. We may need to do one specifically. We may need to do like 20 more, I don't know. But I have a feeling we should do one on ADUs, like specifically on ADUs.

Don Healy (: 50:20

Hahaha

We could unpack

a good hour's worth of thoughts and content on ADUs for sure.

William Reid (: 50:34

Yeah,

one last question. You know, I have listeners like all over the country and like I think other places in the world. Is I mean, can this be done in any state in any city in any jurisdiction in the middle of nowhere?

Don Healy (: 50:50

Yeah, yeah, and and honestly it's some of those places in the middle of nowhere that that have the biggest surprises the small nuanced little town, the 200 person township that sometimes they've got the weird rules and So yeah, I would absolutely say that that this needs to be done Anywhere now, you know as far as the services that I provide, you know, I'm here to provide value and if if I can't get access to the information that I need

William Reid (: 51:01

Hahaha.

Don Healy (: 51:15

to develop a report that I feel is going to apply value to you and your process, then absolutely refund

be 100 % above board on that. with that said, in the last year we did 250 reports, have not run into a single jurisdiction where I felt like I couldn't apply value with the information that we were able to find.

William Reid (: 51:35

Yeah, because you're obviously not going to fly to Oklahoma and go into the planning department for the fees that you charge. ⁓

Don Healy (: 51:41

Right, right. Yeah. But you know,

I've been pretty impressed. You know, many, many jurisdictions are very on board with GIS systems and their mapping programs and publishing their information online. I haven't run into a jurisdiction yet that doesn't have their ordinances online in some place, some way. And so, you know, the information is getting more and more accessible.

And then, you know, I do, I want to throw out the nugget too of, AI is a great tool. it's not necessarily going to give you the, the, accuracy that you can depend on, but it can certainly help point you down the path. And you know, if you prompt Gemini, and say, Hey, I'm preparing to build a house in this jurisdiction in this city. And I want to build a 2,500 square foot house, ⁓ on this lot at this address.

And you just prompt it, you know, what are the regulatory things that I need to watch out for? It does a pretty good job of, of at least pointing you in a direction to start asking questions.

William Reid (: 52:35

Yeah, yeah, I've been doing a lot of that and I have learned that you kind of have to, you gotta be careful that you're prompting it right and you're asking questions, not telling it what to do all the time.

Don Healy (: 52:50

Right. Yeah.

William Reid (: 52:51

All right. Well, everybody, that was Don Healy with Sand and Sage Solutions. And you can go to his website, sandandsagessolutions.com. And I'll put some of this information in the show notes. But man, what a great episode. You remember what our mission here is for all of you. It's to enlighten, empower and protect you. So let's go get it done. I'm Bill Reid with The Awakened Homeowner. We'll see you on the next one.